Seriously, Ziwe
Writer and comedian Ziwe Fumudoh chats with journalist Patrice Peck about where humor and truth collide
Text by Patrice Peck
Photography by Kennedi Carter
Issue 004

“Humor is the closest you can get to a person without touching them,” said renowned psychotherapist Esther Perel during a 2024 recording of her podcast “Where Should We Begin?” In these words, Esther posits that humor is a shared moment of truth that can be used either as a weapon to expose a known absurdity or to connect two or more people in a shared moment of recognition. Ziwe Fumudoh, most commonly known as Ziwe, alone in her work and her words, seems to embody this premise, consistently illustrating how humor can be both sword and shield, weapon and armor, comedy and a serious proposition. Ziwe brilliantly wields satire as an offensive. She is one of the sharpest minds and voices in media today, a testament to the skills she’s honed in her roles as a staff writer for BET’s “The Rundown with Robin Thede” and Showtime’s “Desus & Mero”.
Ziwe’s rise to prominence outside of the writer’s room began in 2017 with the premiere of her self-run YouTube show Baited with Ziwe, but it wasn’t until the 2020 coronavirus lockdowns and Black Lives Matter uprising that her star truly skyrocketed. Her repurposed Baited Instagram Live series became a cultural touchstone and quickly led to her very own critically acclaimed variety show, Ziwe, on Showtime.
Whether she’s grilling an influencer about their performative activism or poking fun at the way society expects Black women to save the world while offering nothing in return, Ziwe uses humor to peel back layers of discomfort, forcing her audience to sit with awkward truths. Her work is rooted in interrogation–both of the person she is in conversation with and the larger world around her. It’s that effortless delivery, the sly grin, the wide-eyed stare, the way she punctuates her questions with silence so heavy it forces a response. It’s a skill that feels as much like journalism as it does comedy, and it’s no wonder her work sits at the intersection of both.
Ziwe stands at the frontlines of a new era of Black women comedians who are reshaping the comedy landscape. She stands in the good company of those such as Robin Thede, who made history as the first Black woman head writer of a late-night show and, later, created “A Black Lady Sketch Show”, featuring the first all-Black women’s writers’ room; Quinta Brunson who (also gained prominence for a self-produced Instagram series “Girl Who Has Never Been on a Nice Date”) has revitalized the traditional network sitcom with award season darling Abbott Elementary; and Issa Rae, who, through Insecure and her production company Hoorae Media, has built a thriving ecosystem of Black women in high-profile comedic projects. Alongside them, Ayo Edebiri, Janelle James, Natasha Rothwell, Amber Ruffin, Michelle Buteau, Sasheer Zamata, Nicole Byer, Ego Nwodim, Sam Jay, and many others are redefining what it means to be a Black woman in comedy. They are not merely performers; they are innovators, challenging the very structures of entertainment and culture and creating space for themselves within an industry that once said women weren’t funny and Black people were not allowed.
Like her peers, Ziwe is expanding the possibilities of both her genre and images of Black women in media, showing that we can be everything at once—brilliant, biting, relatable, subversive. In her essay collection “Black Friend,” she dives even deeper into her personal experiences, a vulnerable and often tricky territory for someone raised with the Nigerian values of privacy and self-protection. And yet, like the best of Black women writers—think bell hooks’ exemplary use of the personal anecdote in “All About Love”—Ziwe understands that the personal is political, comedy can be serious, and that her work thrives in that tension.
It’s a particular sort of dark comedy to think of a time when, according to comedy’s gatekeepers, Black women were not considered “funny”. Black women and comedy go hand-in-hand—we can see the world’s foolishness so clearly. From the stages we command to the screens we dominate, our humor isn’t just for entertainment. It’s a survival tactic honed over generations, and Ziwe is one of the latest virtuosos. Drawing on her role as comedian and critic, Ziwe recently spoke with Citizen to share her thoughts on “the serious issues”—the things and the people that we are talking about and the themes that have dominated public discourse. In her reflections, Ziwe serves up a mini master class on how humor, sharp critique, and thoughtful insights can cut through complexity, revealing her signature approach for tackling and shedding light on the mundane, the messy, and everything in between.

Ziwe on proposing a new Constitutional Amendment.
“I mean, there are so many problems. There’s too many new ones that we need. There are bad things that occur on a daily basis. And if I had, you know, tyrannical rule over the country and I could introduce an amendment that no one had to vote for, it could be something that guarantees free housing, free health care, something that attempts to end racism and sexism, world peace.”
Ziwe on book bans–is there any book she would ever approve of being banned?
“Honestly, I can not think of a book I would ban off the top of my mind. I’m someone who is really committed to the idea that if I don’t like a book, I can stop reading it. So I’ve never had the problem of being infuriated by a book and letting it ruin my life.”
Ziwe on trust–who to trust and who to listen to.
“Who do I trust? The people I talk about politics with are academics, honestly, people who are obsessed with or experts in particular fields. So I could name names, but you wouldn’t even know who these people are because they’re my friends from high school and college and work. But if I’m thinking of media voices that I trust–I listen to the Wall Street Journal and NPR–publications that verify and fact-check. I’m a fan of New York Magazine. Otherwise, I think I will take everything with a grain of salt.”
Ziwe on Linsey Davis of ABC News.
“I’ve been keeping my eye on her for a minute. I did an interview on her show, and I found her to be incredible. She’s really thoughtful. She asked me such thoughtful questions. She was really quick, literally quick, smart, but also with a very rapid pace. That was something that really stuck with me. I was lucky enough to be on her show in October 2023. And obviously, she just co-moderated the [second Presidential] debate with David Muir. So I would say that’s a journalist that I’ve been watching really closely for the last year. I also trust her shoulder pads.”
Ziwe on Ta-Nehisi Coates.
“Ta-Nehisi Coates blurs lines because he’s a journalist and a critic, but he also teaches English at [Howard] and wrote a novel. If you’re talking about books that influenced mine, I read “Between the World and Me” and I thought, ‘Oh my God, this is such an impactful nonfiction book that had such an interesting framing.’ He captures Black American-ness and American-ness in such a sharp way.”
“Anyone who says that AI is good at writing doesn’t read.”
Ziwe on comedy and journalism.
“Beyoncé taught us that genre does not mean a thing, and she released “Cowboy Carter” because she wanted to blend genres. I see that as emblematic of this new era we’re in, where globalization has expanded our world and blurred the lines between worlds beyond our wildest imagination. And so you’re watching me bend genre, right? My comedy is comedic, but it also has obvious journalistic influences. I watched ABC News every day of my childhood for like 12 years. So, stylistically, [news] is something I’ve always been attracted to. Most of my favorite books over the last couple of years were written by journalists. “Super Pumped” by Mike Isaac. “Bad Blood” by John Carreyrou. I just like that type of communication. It’s really concise. It doesn’t use annoying big words that I don’t understand. It’s meant to be consumed and palatable. And so, yes, my comedy reflects that.”
Ziwe on reports of drops in enrollment for Black and brown students at particular schools in the wake of the affirmative action ruling by the Supreme Court.
“It makes me sad.”
Ziwe on what advice she would give to recent college graduates.
“It’s so hard to give advice because the market is so different than it was 15 years ago. I’ve been reading about how people are less inclined to encourage Gen Z and Gen Alpha into their industries because of the lack of work. So, honestly, what I would say if I was giving advice to a young person who’s looking to pursue a career in the world of creative arts, it would be to have a really strong POV and be prepared to be broke for a very long time. That’s probably the advice I would give.”
Ziwe on AI being incorporated into creative spaces.
“I think AI is really bad at art, honestly. And anyone who says that AI is good at writing doesn’t read. So that’s just my hot take. I just don’t think it’s at that place where it competes with really talented writers. And doesn’t [having people input very specific prompts] defeat the purpose of saying, ‘AI is going to replace people’? I mean, it may be able to replace them, but not me. I am so niche. They could try. I can’t even tell you what I’m going to say next. And definitely don’t think a computer could. It always feels derivative and hollow. You hear dupes of music, right, where it’s like, ‘Oh, this isn’t like a song,’ but they use a pop star’s voice, and it’s really kind of eerie and uncanny. I have yet to really see great writing from AI. I think they’re kind of flops. I think they should go to art school. I’m talking about the computers. I think the computers should attend Iowa Workshop.”
Ziwe on AI going to school.
“Well, unfortunately, it doesn’t seem like it’s possible for them to enroll. But if they can, I would love to see them go into student debt to find a perspective and figure out how to utilize it. I’m just sort of skeptical. Of course, AI is cheaper than people, it’s cheaper than our labor, but I have yet to see really good art come from a machine. Have you?”
“I dress as though I were a very rich child, like I wish that I could go back in time and give my younger self like $50,000 and be like, just freak it.”
Ziwe on clothes.
“I just like really silly clothes. I like having fun. That’s how I dress, and my world reflects that. I dress as though I were a very rich child, like I wish that I could go back in time and give my younger self like $50,000 and be like, just freak it. But obviously, time machines don’t exist. So, instead, I let myself wear what I want as an adult. That’s something that really energizes me as someone who loves fashion. I’ve recently become an archivist, and that’s been really fun. I’ll see a piece on one of the Spice Girls circa 1996 and think, ‘Oh yeah, like it would be cool to have that in my wardrobe.’”
Ziwe on privacy.
“I like to lock myself in my house. And live a private, beautiful, artistic life. Culturally, Nigerians are like, don’t tell anyone your business, or they’ll do voodoo on you. Don’t tell people what you’re up to. Don’t tell people where you live. So yeah, I think I’m a private person. It also lends itself to my job. I spend a lot of time writing, and when I’m not shooting, I’m editing, and I just need to be in peace and quiet and tranquility to be able to create things that I think are bespoke.”
Ziwe on difficulty and her work.
“I don’t really qualify my accomplishments by degrees of difficulty. I kind of have a one-track brain. It’s like, ‘Oh, you finished this thing. Okay, there’s another thing after that.’ So, I don’t think of my work in terms of how hard it is. It’s all hard because I’m putting all of my energy into it. I really take my work seriously. I shot an interview with Anna Delvey, and I’m in the process of editing that to be released in the next two weeks, which is difficult. Not because I haven’t done a hundred interviews (I actually don’t think I’ve done a hundred interviews). It’s because every guest is a new person, and therefore, you want to prepare and put your best foot forward. And the same goes for writing a book. Writing a book was really hard because it required this level of vulnerability that I’m not used to. Every time I shoot something, I get really stressed out. That’s part of my process–anxiety. I try to work really hard, and I hope you can feel that effort in my work because it feels really unique, and it feels fresh and new and different than what’s been done before.”
Ziwe’s answers have been edited for clarity and length.
Credits
Photography: Kennedi Carter
Words: Patrice Peck
Makeup: Jamal Scott
Hair: Jadis Jolie
Photo Assistants: Stephen Wordie, Tim Hoffman
Art Direction/Design: Jack Foreman
Production: Shay Johnson Studio
Post-Production: INK